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Discussion: Vet Kids on the board...

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PointmanOZ	Vet Kids on the board... Feb 13 2009, 12:37 AM EST I've just been lurking and only reading the emails as they come in. Obviously, some or you are doing in tough and others have come through with flying colours! Just thought I would make a comment as to how important it obviously is to love your dad and to tell him that!! I've got four older kids who experienced me at my worst in years gone by (one of them still hates my guts) but only one of them has done so and calls me "Dad"! The others never have and never use the word. I have asked them all to forgive me for who I once used to be, but it's never been granted - they even sent my wife "to Coventry" because she didn't give me the flick when things were not so good! So it's good to know that many of you are proud of your Dads - I would love to have my kids proud of what I am now! Even though everything has changed for the better and my younger ones and grandkids just love me to bits, the hurt is obviously still there for us. There's nothing on this earth more important than family! Post reply 5 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you? Keyword tags: None
9RARBrat	1. RE: Vet Kids on the board... Feb 13 2009, 6:06 PM EST amen to that. it takes a long time to sort through the hurt and the crap and then it takes a big step to forgive. be patient with them mate. i wish you all the best Post reply Do you find this valuable?
bimbyjo	2. RE: Vet Kids on the board... Feb 16 2009, 1:51 PM EST you are now obviously are suffering because of your kids. but what you have to realise and i dont mean to be nasty but i have been there myself with my dad. My dad constantly blames himself fr all my problems physically and mentally. Yeah I did it tough when I was a kid and Ive brought it with me through to adulthood. and yes there has been many times where me & dad have had huge fights even punch up and we stopped talking our longest so far is nearly 5 years. I will not say i hated my dad but we are so much alike we couldnt see eye to eye but not for 1 second did my respect I have for that man stop. Im 34 years old and on new years eve this year my dad said the words I'd longed to hear all my life & that was "Jo I'm so proud of you" you could of knocked me over with a feather but i felt so good to hear those words My dad is the only one that understands me especially when i flip out. My mum just looks at me andsays your just like your bloody father but to her credit she has been with my dad through thick and thin 37 years this yea and she wouldnt have it any othe way. I dont know you or your kid but a lot of usfind it hard to express our true feelings we bottle them up because to show emotion is a sign of weakness but take solace in this I'm sure they love & resect you but can't say it. I'd like to say this I love my dad he is my hero i respect him so much but i cant tell him i love him i cant remember the last time we even had physical contact (we both cant stand it) drives mum crazy because the old hippie just wants a cuddle and we both run! lol I'm sure your kids love you but cant express it. It is so easy to show the emotion of hatred than love and its hard to come back and say sorry please forgive but im glad i did i now have my parents with me Hope it all works out for you sorry about the length I tend to babble on! lol Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PointmanOZ	3. RE: Vet Kids on the board... Feb 16 2009, 9:07 PM EST Thanks Ladies for your comments. It's been my eldest son that is full of all the angst and it has even alienated him from others in the family. It would seem to me from my familiy's expereince that girls were the first ones to get "through it" all - must be us blokes who make it hard for ourselves? Appreciate your comments and time! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
jules065	4. RE: Vet Kids on the board... Apr 4 2009, 12:47 AM EDT Hi Pointman... i too lurk, rarely posting because i fear what others will think of me. i sympathise & empathise with what you're dealing with. this war destroyed so many lives, physically & emotionally & it continues to do so. my dad did 2 tours of Nam & came home a ruined man. as most of you know, you come home unable to express your feelings & often unable to deal with every day life. my dad was never able to say the words i needed to hear...'i'm proud of you' & ' i love you'....i waited till 5 days before he passed away to hear these words, &, at the time, it changed me considerably. i've not long been diagnosed with bi-polar, border line personality disorder, PTSD, depression & anxiety attacks, all attributed to what my dad suffered. i'm so sorry your children haven't been able to work through their 'stuff'...i hope that some day soon they can see their way clear & forgive you. it is incredibly difficult to do, as the memories stay so raw, no matter how long its been. there were many things i could not forgive my dad for, for many years. some of the hurtful & hateful things he said were soul destroying. it still hurts sometimes. but all the way along, i worshipped the ground he walked on....part of my issues were wanting to be like him, i figured if i could be more like him, he'd love me & accept me more. i hope & pray that your family will find it's way through the maze of darkness. take care. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PointmanOZ	5. RE: Vet Kids on the board... Apr 4 2009, 7:10 AM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 4 2009, 7:10 AM EDT Hi Jules, thankyou for taking the time to comment. Obviously it's a tough road for the parent and their children. I wonder if the reason we find it so hard is because we are too close? Or, is it because both don't know how to deal with is all? My Dad was a WWII veteran who was repatriated home from Milne Bay and spent the next couple of years in Uralla (Concord) Hospital. He had TB, War Neurosis, and a diagnosis of Epilepsy - which 11 months after being home proved to be a mis-diagnosis - the cause of his extreme pain and blackouts was a coral bug that had eaten through his right eardrum and was consuming his middle ear! When he was finally discharged from hospital he was asked if he had any kids? Yes, he said - Me. He was told to never hug me, kiss me, sit me on his lap, or wrestle with me because he could give me TB! He was never there for me as I grew up and we didn't get along at all. I guess the realisation dawned on me as I was reading your post - we are one and the same because I was the son of a PTSD sufferer who received no treament and self-medicated on alcohol for many years! Someone once said that war is not about who wins, but who's left!!! Thanks again for your thoughts and prayers - I guess I never saw myself in this light before??? Blessings. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
jules065	6. RE: Vet Kids on the board... Apr 5 2009, 2:47 AM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 5 2009, 2:47 AM EDT Hi again, i know with my dad, as far as he was concerned there was nothing wrong with him. he was a career soldier & had joined up well before Nam. so as far as he was concerned he should have been able to deal with all that was thrown at him & he basically pretended all was well. but, ask him to deal with emotions & such...well that just didn't happen. he pushed me away after my mum died in 1989 & didn't seem me spiralling downward. he came back to me not long before he died so didn't see most of what i'd been through. oddly enough, even tho he'd said some horrendous things, it never stopped me from worshipping him, he was my hero...i still can't cope with losing him, nor my mum for that matter. i think, sometimes, the harder we try to pull ourselves out of the darkness, we dig ourselves further down. your dad must have been in excrutiating pain with his injury. & being up in PNG he must have seen some hell. i don't think we do know how to deal with 'this'.....nothing prepares the families for it, nothing prepares the soldiers for it. they're thrown in at the deep end & are expected to cope with whatever is thrown at them when they get there. all we know is that you're changed people when you return home. you deal with life the best you can. sometimes you fail....but if you can find some help along the way, there's a chance you can turn things around. keep digging away...eventually you will find the light at the end of the tunnel. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PointmanOZ	7. RE: Vet Kids on the board... Apr 5 2009, 11:08 PM EDT Hi again to you! Iwas like you Dad - it wasn't me that had a problem - it was the rest of the world! Originally, I self-medicated on alsohol until I had a wake-up call and then immersed myseld in work and became a work-a-holic! I used to meet other Vets who seemed to have it all together - now I know they were only faking like myself, because inside I was enduring a personal hell. Someone once said, "Time heals all wounds" but I guess they didn't know what they were talking about - unless you've been there and expereinced it first-hand, then you simply don't know! It was when my older kids began to run of the rails that I knew I had to do something, but what? It wasn't until my wife looked at me one day - with a look I have never seen before or since - and said, "There's something wrong with you. You have to go and see someone to get some help"! I knew she meant business and knew she was right. But who to see? I eventually wound up at the VVCS and sitting with psychologists and psychiatrists who were in need of help themselves! They had me playing with a jig-saw puzzle (supposing I was the odd piece out, I think?); writing down things on paper that then didn't want to see? and all the time trying to find the proverbial needle int he haystack, but never did! So, after about 5-6, I gave them the flick! I haven no confidence in them whatsoever now! After learning what Freud and Jung really believed and knowing the "system" bought it all from them hook line and sinker was enough! What really helped was researching PTSD for myself and talking with mates in the same boat. The farthest back I went was to Thermopylae and the drumming out of the service of one of Alexander the Greats generals - for cowardice as he could no longer bring himself to go back into battle! Following the history thread helped me to realise that I was only "normal" after all! Things are better and thanks again. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
9RARBrat	8. RE: Vet Kids on the board... Jul 23 2009, 2:36 PM EDT Hello, The VVCS for better or worse is what it is. which is frustrating. they are trying...... very trying. if you want to go and see someone for help, i recommend that you talk to my dad, popeye. he's been getting help from St John of God in Windsor NSW and i'm sure he can help you find a person who will be able to help you out. Dad's also been doing pensions and all of that stuff for other veterans he looks after his mates and veterans no matter what war/conflict they were in. pretty proud of him for it actually. if your interested let me know and i'll email you his details. it's been a while since i was last on here. sorry it took so long for me to meassage you. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Mummajen	9. RE: Vet Kids on the board... Sep 10 2009, 6:40 PM EDT I'm really glad that site allows us to see the views and feeling from those on both sides of the fence. I too have just been lurking in the shadows but after reading this discussion, felt it was finally time to 'come into the light'!! I too grew up with a father with severe undiagnosed PTSD. He could be the most polite person in public, but behind closed doors could become a withdrawn, abusive alcoholic and from the moment my mother left him when I was 15, I had nothing more to do with him. It wasn't till after the death of my brother and a few moths after my first child was born that I decided that maybe it was time to take a step in the direction of attempting to build some kind of relationship with him. I too found it very difficult to call him Dad. I suppose I really do believe in the saying- anyone can be a Father, it takes a special man to be a Daddy. It seemed nothing I did was ever good enough- if I came home from school with a report card full of A's, I would be asked where the + was. It was only a couple of months ago that he finally told me (not in these exact words, but in his own way) that he was proud of the person I'd become. Finally!! Relief, those few little words I had so longed to hear. Dad and I now talk on the phone a few times a week. He is now even starting to open up to me about his experiences in Nam. I call him Dad now quite freely but after all the years of abuse and pain, still find it a bit difficult with physical affection with him, but it is getting easier slowly. I suppose all I am saying, is give your son time. I don't know exactly what your sons childhood was like, but I know for me I am still working through it all. Educating myself on the Vets experiences and PTSD has helped. You may say I have forgiven but no matter how hard I try, I cannot forget. But I am proud to say that my Dad is now the Grandfather that I never had as a father and I am so proud of him for that. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PointmanOZ	10. RE: Vet Kids on the board... Sep 13 2009, 11:29 PM EDT G'day 9RARBrat, Mummajen and jules065, I really appreciate your posts. Like the play on words about VVCS "...they are trying.....very trying"! I really don't think that they have yet realised, after all the years they've existed, that "one size still doesn't fit all"! I've gained more understanding from your posts than through them! Thanks, I have turned a corner with my son! I know my next step, when I get the opportunity. Things have beent hectic, as our youngest daughter (34) suffered a stroke a month ago and we've all been "working as a family" to visit with her and look after the homefront for our son-in-law (who has to work) and their 5 kids. One of my grandsons is has been asleep on the lounge for 3 1/2 hrs now! Too sick to go to school this morning). I feel for you all that you've had to go through what you've been through, but at the same time I can detect that the three of you've now come to a place, in spite of your own circumstances, are able to help others. Thank you for being who you are and how you are now using a "gift" that others don't have to encourage others. As to talking to Popeye, thanks for the offer, but I guess that, just like "Secret Millionaire" I haven't been entirely open with you (forgive me for that) but, I too have been able to help hundreds of other Veterans and their widows, over many years as a very successful advocate from the early 90's until the end of 2003, when I had to "retire" for my own health's sake. I did a good job covering up my own problems in all that time. I was a "physician" who could help others, but not himself. I am progressing in many ways, even to the point of being able to kick all but a couple of medications that keep me on an even keel. I trust that some other dads "out there" have been helped by your posts? Thankyou. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PointmanOZ	11. RE: Vet Kids on the board... Sep 13 2009, 11:31 PM EDT Sorry, forgot to mention "bimbyjo" - didn't scroll back far enough! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
v.vetdaughter	12. RE: Vet Kids on the board... Oct 6 2009, 8:59 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 6 2009, 8:59 PM EDT Hi PointmanOZ. Today I was sent the link to this web site & after reading the comments, it has thrown me for a six! Firstly, I wish to congratulate you on having the courage to admit your stuff ups with your kids & want to make amends with them, I think that is beyond fantastic! I never got that chance with my old man. He died 11 years ago from a massive heart attack - he drank & smoke constantly, don't think he ever truly got over Mum leaving him & I when I was a kid. I totally understand why she left, he'd wake up in the middle of the night choking her, he'd hold a gun, fishing knife, whatever he could find to her, thinking she was "Charlie". It's a wonder she stayed as long as she did, but I'll never understand why she left me there, a young girl about to enter her teens. Oh well, that's another issue. Mum & I are close now, but not once did I get an apology.. oops there's that other issue again! Dad then turned on me, he would have his gret days where we'd have a laugh, they're the moments I cling to when I miss him, but there were days too where he was "back in Nam" where he'd lock me out of the house for days on ends. I was 13 at the time. The things he did to me & put me through will always remain with me.A few years ago, I tracked down Dad's platoon mates & have heard their stories of not only Dad, but also what it was like "over there". I am forever thankful that they all welcomed me so warmly, as this was a huge help - more than counselling ever did for me - because it made me understand my Dad, what he went through & why he was the way he was. I just wish that I had the chance to tell him I forgive & love him & am hugely proud of him. I hope your son realises this soon too.All the best to you & your family. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PointmanOZ	13. RE: Vet Kids on the board... Oct 7 2009, 9:55 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 7 2009, 9:55 PM EDT Hi and thank you for your post - I didn't realise what I started to do just a few short years ago would mean as much as it obviously has done for our kids!! Hindsight is unfortunately 20/20! I have found your comments insightful. I now know that there's obviously a lot more that has gone on in the lives of many of our children than I was aware of? I feel saddened that you have had to go through what you have. For many years, every time I tried to "build bridges" with my kids, I would run into a "brick wall". The VVCS did not help me personally - I found that the "shrinks" had absolutely no idea! In fact, when they made it possible for children of Vietnam Vets to receive counselling, my wife and I originally thought that it may be of help to ours - HOW WRONG WE WERE! All they achieved was to cut us off from all visiting and we were not allowed to even see our grandchildren for many years thanks to them! My wife was in time allowed visits on their birthdays and Christmas, to which I had to drop her off and went a sat in my car somewhere for an hour or two - I felt like a leper! As I sat in the car all I could see was the little faces of some of my grandkids peering around the front door, or through a window, without any recognition that "the man bringing Nanna" was their Pop! So, you may ask, what made the difference that we experience now? Simply, our younger children were the ones who really made the difference! They, as they got older and married, they did not see "The Monster" that I was supposed to be - of course things had begun to change in me, mainly through rsearching PTSD, its origins and history down through the ages! I gradually began to "put a handle" on things and made a quality decision to change and try with all my being to re-build the damage that had been done, and It didn't happen overnight....cont'd Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PointmanOZ	14. RE: Vet Kids on the board... Oct 7 2009, 10:10 PM EDT ...As the opportunity afforded - and it wasn't easy, in fact it was damn difficult - I have been able to go to each one and say something like, "I'm really sorry that I wasn't the father to you that I should have been when you were younger. I have no excuse for the pain I have put you through but I hope you can try and understand that I wasn't aware that my actions and conduct were wrong for many years. Will you please try to find it in your heart to forgive me for failing to be the father you deserved and that I should have been and not the tryrant that I had become?" The reaction was that of shock! They were hearing their Dad finally admit that what he used to be was totally wrong - instead of being the one who usually said that there was nothing wrong with me, it was always everyone else who was wrong!" As a result, I believe that I made myself vulnerable and transparent, as I know that I was " watched" even more closely to see if I would continue to " walk the talk"? However, a couple told me that, "You can't expect it to all go away just by saying you're sorry"! But, I know I've a long way to go, but it's really great to be a "Dad" and "Pop" these days, I wouldn't swap things for all the tea in China! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
csvento	15. RE: Vet Kids on the board... Oct 8 2009, 1:16 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 8 2009, 1:16 PM EDT I am also the daughter of a World War II veteran with untreated PTSD who self medicated with alcohol. Our generation did not even know about war trauma since those vets were given minimal understanding for their psychological problems. I have a blog called Legacy of War at www.dutchschultz.blogspot.com and a website www.daughtersofd-day.com where I am attempting to deal with these issues. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Lee-AnnWooster	16. RE: Vet Kids on the board... Oct 9 2009, 1:21 AM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 9 2009, 1:21 AM EDT St John is a really good hospital and I certainly recommend it. My dad was there in 1994 and out of all the hospitals he has been in he made the best progress there. They helped him recover traumatic memories with REM treatment which then abled him to deal with them properly and to understand his phobia of water. My dad was in 9 RAR A coy and I have nothing but absolute love, pride and respect for him and of course he is'nt perfect but I've always accepted him faults and all. The VVCS hasn't been much help to any of my family, my dad, mum and myself have all received councelling there but it didn't really do any of us any good. It's good reading the posts on this site and finally knowing there are others like me out there I dont feel so alone anymore! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Combat_Ken	17. RE: Vet Kids on the board... Oct 14 2009, 2:53 AM EDT I am keen to start our own specialised counselling service.... Any others qualified? You don't necessarilly need to be but it certainly helps. This concept is supported by key figures in support services, but they are reluctant to carry the candle for us. We may need to do it alone. Any ideas, besides me having the only open office at my local RSL? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PointmanOZ	18. RE: Vet Kids on the board... Oct 14 2009, 6:50 AM EDT HI again All! Just thought that you would all like to know that Monday morning I dropped into my son's workplace and ask him if we could get together at a more suitable time where we could talk things through - he welcomed the opportunity and we agreed that we would do it asap outside work hours and other standing commitments that we both have! Thanks to you all for the things you shared. It helped me to realise that I had to make the first move and I'm very pleased that I did. Let you know how things go? Many thanks again for sharing and opening up to me in this. It helped me to know something of what he must have experienced and endured for many years. War is not about who's right - it's about who's left!. ps: For Ken - will give the matter of a counsellling service some thought as I do have experience and qualifications that perhaps we can talk about back channel? Post reply Do you find this valuable?